**SPOILER WARNING** Owner's Share discussion

[quandmeme]

I really enjoy the discussion as the episodes unfold. The preview first episode is already out so I thought I'd open the thread.

- I'm guessing the speed at which the 1st episode brings the attraction to Gretta to a head and then pops it was not part of the early draft. I think the listener is going to agree with Gretta that he was being a little juvenile and that kind of weakness is a good note with which to start the episode with the your-such-a-superman talk from the company so soon into the book.

-Am I right in remembering that Captain's Share started with Ish having five years on the Tinker? Double share likewise starts after a 4-year gap for the academy. I expected Ish to be a captain longer with the brig-rat as practically senior crew. Sounds like it's only be a few voyages. The salvage timeline makes that all make sense, of course, somehow I assumed that there'd be more time-in-grade.

[dilwyn]

Given that Maloney specified Ish as a trainer because he wanted his daughter to succeed how will DST board members want things to work out now?
Was Maloneys death natural or subtly assisted?  Remember he felt threatened enough to travel everywhere with a bodyguard.
what's to stop Ish from using his charm and position of authority to end up as husband to majority shareholder and de facto CEO of DST (ok, I know the answer to that one)
All in all it's going to be fun sorting through this one, I hope Ish remembers his academy level sneakiness course ( and checks his new boat for booby traps) 

[nlowell]

- I'm guessing the speed at which the 1st episode brings the attraction to Gretta to a head and then pops it was not part of the early draft. I think the listener is going to agree with Gretta that he was being a little juvenile and that kind of weakness is a good note with which to start the episode with the your-such-a-superman talk from the company so soon into the book.

Actually, it was in the very first draft. I set it up with the hot tub scene at the end of Captain's Share. That was actually one of the threads that i purposely sowed there. It's part of the theme I anticipated for Owner's Share. I'm not sure how well I carried that theme along, but it was not only intentional, but pivotal.

-Am I right in remembering that Captain's Share started with Ish having five years on the Tinker? Double share likewise starts after a 4-year gap for the academy. I expected Ish to be a captain longer with the brig-rat as practically senior crew. Sounds like it's only be a few voyages. The salvage timeline makes that all make sense, of course, somehow I assumed that there'd be more time-in-grade.

The gap between Double and Captain was more like fifteen years. The two books - Captain's and Owner's - have to be relatively close in time because the Chernyakova was the set up for this book. Sort of.

[joshg]

Given that Maloney specified Ish as a trainer because he wanted his daughter to succeed how will DST board members want things to work out now?

I got the impression it was the board's idea to use Ish, not Maloney's.  I'll have to re-listen now.

Was Maloneys death natural or subtly assisted?  Remember he felt threatened enough to travel everywhere with a bodyguard.

I was thinking the same thing.  Nate set that up in Captain's share too.  Ish had one of his mental side notes that we occassionally get to listen in on that said something along the lines of "I never understood why he felt the need for a bodyguard".  I don't remember the exact wording.

All in all it's going to be fun sorting through this one,

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Russell]

The tongue-in-cheek ship for DST to sell to Ish would be the Paris. Considering his new (maybe) charge and her brief description.

I'm most interested to see what, if anything, plays out with the Ephemeral. Will it be personal, business, connected with Maloney's death (we'll know if Ish see's Mr. Maxwell roaming around Diurnia Orbital  ), or one of Nate's red herrings.

For some reason I don't think we've seen the end of the Gretta drama. I have a feeling she'll follow Ish onto his new command ishcooties or not. Of course its never a good idea to try to guess where Nate will take a story

[quandmeme]

Of course its never a good idea to try to guess where Nate will take a story

Absolutely, I went back to check the age of the movie buff Ish met on the ship from the academy. When the company rep was saying it was Maloney's yacht that he rode on I wondered if Ish had already met the daughter. Nope, the ages don't match.

[nlowell]

Ok, that'll give you a little more grist to grind.

Have fun

[Tara_Li]

I kind of thought Gretta was in the wrong calling Ishmael paternalistic et al.  While she was right about him being an ass in avoiding her, and calling him on it, as it affected ship safety and crew morale to some degree, as long as he *doesn't* step over the line to using his position to push her into a relationship with him, it's not her business how he feels about her, and he's as free to never attempt to initiate a relationship as she is to refuse his advances if he did make them.

Bad Gretta, no cookie for you!

Of course, she may now be regretting her choice.

I'm glad to see some of the uptight moralism Ish developed starting to rub off.  I've often wondered at his apparent prejudice against "bunk-bunny ships", as though such a ship of necessity must have discipline problems.  I'd almost like to work out a fanfic over in the appropriate sector of this board, placed aboard one of the bunk-bunny ships, showing how there has developed two trader cultures on ships, with each side having their appropriate myths and stories about how bad the other is.

[Hade]

OK, first off, I can't help but echo what many others before me have already said over on the blog: Thank you, Nate. This counts as a truly awesome Christmas present. Thank you also for finally explaining why Maloney all but forced a brig rat upon Ishmael in Captain's Share. At the time I thought it was out of character, but now it makes perfect sense.

Now, with the formalities out of the way, on to the really important stuff ;-). Topping my list of good topics for speculation is of course Maloney's death. If we can trust Ish's inner musings (and I don't think we've ever been given a good reason not to), then there is definitely more to this death than meets the eye. I have no idea who might have had a hand in it or why, though. At this point, I consider suicide as credible an option as any. There might or might not have been considerable irritation with the way Maloney had been running things at the company (maybe especially with regards to his plans for his daughter), but I don't think anyone would be crazy enough to consider killing him for that -- not in Nate's universe, which is generally populated by real human beings instead of their caricatures. Does anyone have any theories on this that actually make some sense? The seemingly constant need Maloney had for a body guard may be a good clue that I had forgotten about. I wonder if there's anything else I'm overlooking.

What made me wonder too was Wyatt's incredulous "that's what she told you?" response to Ish's conversation with the Chief. I could be wrong, but I suspect he knows something about the Chief that Ish doesn't. I do believe she is currently not really interested in anything beyond friendship with him, but I think he may have the wrong idea as to the reason for that.

Finally, I'm not sure the Ephemeral is anything other than a red herring, but if it is, then I'm betting Pip is on that boat. What would be more fitting than a Carstairs-Wang reunion in light of the latter going indie on a fast packet? Of course, for the timing to make any kind of sense, he would have to be there at the request of someone at DST, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense unless the Carstairs are the only people in the universe making a decent living at fast-packet cargo hauling. Still, I'm hoping for at least a Pip cameo before this ends. A
girl can dream, right?

And in response to the person who thinks bunk-bunny ships are in large part a thing of myths told by people on other ships: that's an intriguing idea, but I think we need to keep in mind that not all ships where fraternization is allowed should necessarily be characterized as bunk bunny ships. Double Share is proof that at least one bunk bunny ship deserving of that monniker once existed in Nate's universe, but the Agamemnon under Captain Wang is proof that it doesn't have to be all or nothing. Romantic involvement among shipmates can be had without it necessarily leading to sexual exploitation. I'm sure Ishmael realizes that just as clearly as others in his line of work do. "Don't screw with crew" is a choice he once made for himself, yes. But other people make different choices, and as his support for his first mate's relationship shows, Ish is OK with that.

[Tara_Li]

And in response to the person who thinks bunk-bunny ships are in large part a thing of myths told by people on other ships: that's an intriguing idea, but I think we need to keep in mind that not all ships where fraternization is allowed should necessarily be characterized as bunk bunny ships. Double Share is proof that at least one bunk bunny ship deserving of that monniker once existed in Nate's universe, but the Agamemnon under Captain Wang is proof that it doesn't have to be all or nothing. Romantic involvement among shipmates can be had without it necessarily leading to sexual exploitation. I'm sure Ishmael realizes that just as clearly as others in his line of work do. "Don't screw with crew" is a choice he once made for himself, yes. But other people make different choices, and as his support for his first mate's relationship shows, Ish is OK with that.

It's not so much that bunk-bunny ships are a myth, but that the more martial-oriented ships might have myths about how they operate, while the bunk-bunny ships might have their own myths about the martial-oriented ships, perhaps with stories of strict and brutal rituals required for promotion by martinet captains.  There are, certainly, going to be badly run ships of all kinds, badly run in all different kinds of ways.  We've seen two ways so far - the Tinker, where the Captain is negligent, the First Mate amazingly brutal, and the rest of the crew rather demoralized, and from what we can tell of the Chernikova and the other ship DST is looking to sell to Capt. Wang, where all we can see is simply neglect, which does not require demoralization.

This is definitely going to be a fun ride, though!

[afelder]

I just have one thing that has been driving me crazy (I've only listened through once so I haven't gotten multiple obsessions yet).  Why are they trying to get Mr Paul promoted to Second Mate?  He was the Second Mate on the Agamemnon when Ish got there and Delman said he doubted he would ever get to first.  Did he get demoted?  I thought based on the conversation Ish had in double share that tractors didn't have 3rd mates? 

[Hade]

@afelder: Nate said over on the blog that this was a 'typo' on his part and he will fix it in the coming chapters and the print edition.

[joshg]

I keep watching over the horizon wondering when Kurt is going to show up.

There has to be more to this story, and Kurt must have some vital tidbits.  If anybody knew Maloney's intimate thought process, it was kurt.  Plus, Kurt seems to be the only person at DST who Ish has seemed to really trust in the past.

[afelder]

@afelder: Nate said over on the blog that this was a 'typo' on his part and he will fix it in the coming chapters and the print edition.

I just saw that thank you Hade I was in the middle of my complete relisten to the series when this book started dropping and hadn't seen the blog post

[joshg]

Nate,

I've got a continuity hickup.

I'm doing a full re-listen of the series.  I'm on Episode 3 of Double Share at the moment.  Ish is researching DST and says that "the current CEO is the son of the founder, a man named Jeffrey Maloney."

In Owner's share (Episode 1), Kirsten Kingsley is explaining to Ish the way the company's CEO setup has always worked and says something along the way of "that's the way Mr. Maloney, and his father, and his grandfather before him always wanted it."

I'm assuming the Owner's share reference of 3 previous Maloney CEOs is correct.  I thought you might want to update the Double Share text before you start getting it ready for print.

Thanks for the stories.  I love them (as you can probably tell).