**SPOILER WARNING** Owner's Share discussion

[mimccart]

We have come to the end. For now, I shall just stand and applaud.

[joshg]

When I finished The Return of the King, I felt victorious.
When I finished the Deathly Hallows, I felt disappointed.
When I finished The Magician's Nephew, I felt relieved.
When I finished Mostly Harmless, I felt entertained.
When I finished Owner's Share, I felt, well, all of the above.

[Jamming]

I think in all the serious issues comes down to how much do you want real and how much you want escape.  People are variable with both individually and when other things are influencing them.  It is as much a timing issue for the author and the reader's perception. Author's can never please everyone, but I think sufficient numbers are. Not due to being convinced, but by wanting to be convinced.

My personal view of Article 37 is that was too much of a writer's trick.  This Article 37 allows for more flexibility in the future plots, but it assaults the senses.  It was outside of the realism/escapism axis, it was beyond the graph's measurement, which made it seem contrived.  It has the similar problem in realism which made the Bridge Crew of the Agamemnon suspicious, it was not natural death for Mr. Geoff Malone in the first place. Article 37 does not happen instantaneously, yes it could be tweaked to but it exists so far out of the realm of normal probability of outcomes would happen in such an encounter.  It leaves a bad taste in my mouth when I am expecting a nice white dessert wine and I end up with MD20/20, its not even the right color.

The other problem I have is that Ishmael is leaving his support system, getting away from his "problem" Article 37, running away again, first from his relationship on the Agamemnon and now this.  I had more admiration for his character than this response. It appears that he is the same child that he was when his mother died.  All the character growth Ish had gone through evaporates in the last three episodes. It would not be a stretch for someone to want to make changes, but this is a round peg in a square hole, forced. Ish is no longer, just an average Joe trying to make it in the universe when his mother is killed in a mindless accident and he’s suddenly left to his own devices.  He now is a merchant prince or a tragic hero, sorry it ended that way.

Feel Free to moderate this away if needed.

[nlowell]

No need to moderate it away, Jamming.

It's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

It's actually a very good observation because the book is all about being off balance and how subtle, often seemingly inconsequential things, can push you into places you can't imagine being.

I know a lot of people are looking at Article 37 as a "cheap trick" but -- really? -- bad things happen. They're not inconsistent with the kinds of "small stories" I want to tell. The whole second trilogy departed from the original "common man" premise. This is just the logical conclusion of it.

[Jamming]

It's actually a very good observation because the book is all about being off balance and how subtle, often seemingly inconsequential things, can push you into places you can't imagine being.
I know a lot of people are looking at Article 37 as a "cheap trick" but -- really? -- bad things happen. They're not inconsistent with the kinds of "small stories" I want to tell.
The whole second trilogy departed from the original "common man" premise. This is just the logical conclusion of it.

Subtle, inconsequential things do happen to force things to happen, it is not the big sweep of history, but small sometimes unrelated things.  Problem for me is the professional in Article 37 becomes an amateur, advance medical attention that is availible is not capable of intervening, the modern golden hour magically disappears (which is probably a golden day or greater.)  Like I said a writer can write it so those things are out of the picture.  Which just goes to show the high level of improbability of the result. 

I do realize there were changes between the first three, but it was easy to see the fourth and fifth as continuations of the earlier three.  Made of maturer wood than the first three, elementally the same.  This sixth book something is hinky from the start, which I overlooked because it was just beginning, others said it was there.  It is like a different writer and characters emerged and took the places of the original writer and characters, it was like the respect was gone for the earlier characters and the overall work.  Its like the Bodysnatchers took over the whole project and introduced themselves in Article 37, telling us they been there from the start.  "Logical conclusion", I just don't see the logic in that conclusion, what once was uplifting is now a downer.

[Laith]

When I finished The Return of the King, I felt victorious.
When I finished the Deathly Hallows, I felt disappointed.
When I finished The Magician's Nephew, I felt relieved.
When I finished Mostly Harmless, I felt entertained.
When I finished Owner's Share, I felt, well, all of the above.

I agree completely... (haven't read tMN)

[Laith]

It's actually a very good observation because the book is all about being off balance and how subtle, often seemingly inconsequential things, can push you into places you can't imagine being.

I know a lot of people are looking at Article 37 as a "cheap trick" but -- really? -- bad things happen. They're not inconsistent with the kinds of "small stories" I want to tell. The whole second trilogy departed from the original "common man" premise. This is just the logical conclusion of it.

Having now seen the full scope of Article 37 and its aftermath, while I still wish that Article 37 had not occurred I don't think it was a cheap trick. In order to get the story to the point it needed to be at by the end I think this was about the only way you could do it. no "cheap trick" here at all.

I'm quite certain that Nate looked at all the options he had for plotting the course needed to get the the destination and chose the best course possible.

It has at times been a bumpy ride but again thanks for the journey.

[Hade]

I've been stewing on the question of whether these last three episodes fit into the rest of the series or not. I think my answer would have to be yes regardless of my personal feelings, simply because this is Nate's story to tell, and he chose to tell it this way. But after some contemplation, I've now concluded that it's not simply a matter of creative license. Could the story have ended in a different way? Of course it could have. This conclusion was in no way inevitable. But it is certainly fitting.

Terrible things have happened throughout this series. Ishmael's mother died at the very beginning of it. We may not have cared very much, because we didn't know Ish then the way we do now, and I think many of us may have dismissed that event simply as a plot point to get the rest of the story going. Still, in hindsight, it was the first manifestation of a pattern that cropped up again and again throughout this series. There were several instances of people close to Ish being put in physical and/or emotional jeopardy, and somehow, Ish was always able to do something positive with them. His mother died, which prompted him not only to pull himself up by his bootstraps, but to become an asset to everyone he met along the way. His best friend was mugged while trading privately, and Ish helped set up the co-op in response to that, probably pre-empting much potential future violence against his shipmates. Burnside terrorized the Tinker's crew, and Ish was the catalyst that made flushing him out possible. Even when the danger was caused by a non-human factor -- as was the case when the Lois got stranded -- Ish was the one who ultimately solved the mystery, thereby helping to prevent future similar occurrences.

Through it all, we the readers learned to trust in Ish the same way Ish learned to trust in the 'pooka' of the various ships he sailed on. It wasn't something tangible that we could point at. It was just a general feeling that somehow, as long as Ish was around, things were going to be all right in the end. Some of us even said he had 'magical powers' that made it so. Ultimately, our world was turned upside-down when we discovered that some of our trust was misplaced. Ishmael Wang does not have magical powers that make everything all right in the end. But Ish has known that about himself all along, and has succeeded in life despite it. This is exactly the message I think these stories are trying to convey. He's just an ordinary guy, doing the best he can with what he's been given.  

We are extremely affected by the events that took place in these last six months of his life because *he* is extremely affected by them, but that tells us nothing other than what we already know: Nathan Lowell is a very skilled writer. If enough time passes, the wound will eventually heal -- the last episode of Owner's Share has already put Ish on the road to recovery -- and the writer can take us on a new journey, which I think will be another iteration of the same basic pattern: a guy gets thrown a lemon, and eventually manages to make lemonade out of it. For now, we are too close to the pain to see this. But so is Ish. If nothing else, it proves the potency of first person narrative when used as masterfully as it was here.

To me, the core of the story and its main character are still intact. It's just that after all this time of living in Ishmael's head, we are too close to the agony now to realize that he still has the strength to do once again what he has been doing all these years: take the crap life throws him, and make the best of it. I have no idea where Ishmael's journey might take him next. At this point, I suspect nobody does. Not even Nate. But if and when Ish is ready for the next chapter in his life, you can bet I will be there to hear about it.        

[joshg]

Hade:

I was getting ready to log in and write a long entry about how I really do find OS to fit nicely with the rest of the series only to find you had already written down my thoughts. Thanks for not making me do the work!

[Tara_Li]

I am left with not sadness really.  More like a sense of peace, a reasonable ending.  It has been interesting to read all the comments on the various characters and their debatable flaws.  I too noticed what seemed like inconsistencies in Ishmael's character/actions.  One person already noted that as owner/captain Ish seemed less...sure footed through out most of the last book.  I agree, though second guessing the author seems pointless activity. 

I have come to the conclusion that Ish's biggest mistake all along was...  quitting doing Tai Chi - probably on the Agamemnon.  It left him uncentered, and thus vulnerable to the ploys of Gerheart.

Second guessing the author - or anyone, in fact - is not a pointless activity.  It's how we explore possibilities, illuminate the decisions that were made, and hopefully, make decisions in the future that always get better...  Second-guessing is how we *learn*.

[Tara_Li]

No need to moderate it away, Jamming.

It's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

It's actually a very good observation because the book is all about being off balance and how subtle, often seemingly inconsequential things, can push you into places you can't imagine being.

I know a lot of people are looking at Article 37 as a "cheap trick" but -- really? -- bad things happen. They're not inconsistent with the kinds of "small stories" I want to tell. The whole second trilogy departed from the original "common man" premise. This is just the logical conclusion of it.

Ishmael was *ever* the "common man"?

He gets onto the Lois - and his first test from Cookie is *not* 'make me a perfect omelet', but 'make me coffee to die for' - something he happens to know *exactly* how to do.  He's got rather powerful test-taking skills (which I have also, and can tell you does not necessarily translate into ability to interact with people well), and he's got an amazing ability to interact with people.  He's very well educated, he's simply never had the specialized training that most others on the Lois have had.  However, what he has had is lessons in how to learn, and he applies them extremely well.

Common Man?  Hardly!

[ratz]

I know a lot of people are looking at Article 37 as a "cheap trick" but -- really? -- bad things happen. They're not inconsistent with the kinds of "small stories" I want to tell. The whole second trilogy departed from the original "common man" premise. This is just the logical conclusion of it.

I've been stewing on the question of whether these last three episodes fit into the rest of the series or not. I think my answer would have to be yes regardless of my personal feelings, simply because this is Nate's story to tell, and he chose to tell it this way. But after some contemplation, I've now concluded that it's not simply a matter of creative license. Could the story have ended in a different way? Of course it could have. This conclusion was in no way inevitable. But it is certainly fitting.

Article 37 makes this hard to discuss in depth, but.... First the ride was great. That said; I can see for myself where the trick / lack of fit feelings seem to be coming from.

Article 37 involved three of the primary characters; of those three, two of them where the least developed characters in the entire series, that turned out to be major players and pivotal to journey's end for Ish. The final true villain was skillfully done, leaving me to want to spit at his/her feet and wash my hands for liking him/her. In the micro universe that is the Agamemnon  and the Iris; no one looms small; and to Ish they'd all be well formed individuals, and at the very least 3 dimensional working relationships, but through our small portal of the story peering into the world; I, at least, couldn't feel it. To this audience member those two felt like the only 2D characters in the entire tail. I know more about how I feel about Anrey Rubiay (SP?) than I do about them. In the end it felt as if the wrong parts of the story were left on the cutting room floor.

While the tale of Wyatt trying to buy captains stars was quaint; it didn't really further the stories' end which was to Article 37 Ish. When you are going to Article 37 Crew then I want to really care the same as the First Person lead character; if the events of Article 37 had happened to Pip, Bev, Brill, or Diane my stars the effect would have been crushing and I'd been on the edge of the seat. While it worked with Ish's mom to open the story and trigger a cascade from a character we never meet, it just didn't work so well with level 2 characters. It might have worked if it was Frank, for me at least. More glimpses of the little missing moments that make Ish's relationships and maybe even the disagreements that HAD to have been there with the 37's and suddenly I'd be cursing the author and his descendants at the end of the story (yes that's a good thing); Instead of thinking hmm.. well played and nicely told, I wonder what he's gonna do when he gets a ton of experience as a writer; and by that I mean you can always see how the story telling evolves comparing first year novels to later career works.

In the end I rectify the entire in-balance in my head by assuming this is Ish's retelling of the story at the end of his days; and that it's just too difficult for him to dive deep and share the memories that are missing from the retelling; and that's why we are privy to the lessor moments in the front of the story; as he stalls for time, and then as he nears the hard part he rushes through it because he can't handle telling it...... and then it all works for me; including the lack of growth and the need to run from a life built over 20+ years; which I firmly believes defines middle agers more than their childhoods.

[surfsailor]

@ Tara Li - you are tight of course.  My comment about not second guessing the author was perhaps directed more at myself than anybody else.  A defense mechanism if you will.  I have not been able to stop thinking about Ishmael's future for days now.  Where will he go next?  Will he remain a spacer? Etc...

I find it difficult to disagree with much of what has been said about the last book seeming slightly out of phase with those preceding it.   

[thewheelman84]

All in all I think Owner's Share was an awesome book.  Hell the whole series was awesome.  When Article 37 happened in episode 28 i had to relisten to make sure what I heard was correct.  I will admit i was a little disappointed with how loose things were at the end and they seemed really hastily tied up and i felt like the last three or four episodes were rushed.  I think if there were another couple of chapters to tie some of the other loose ends up tighter I would be more satisfied.  Either way the Share series was great to listen to and is another great Sci-Fi setting.  It makes me want to revisit a story that i've been playing around with for awhile and continue building the world.  

Great job Nate and keep up the good work.  You've got an permanent listener here.  You have a great voice and its very easy to listen to.  Maybe you should get yourself hired out to read "On Basilisk Station" so i can finally start listening to the Honorverse series.  

[Hade]

Gah. I'd like to talk to you, at length and in depth, about character development, ratz. Article 37 is standing in my way.

For now, let's just say that I agree with your point at least to some extent. Some of the characters were not as well-developed as they could have been. Given the implied connection between Ish and these people -- one in particular -- it *is* surprising that he talked about them so little, and in such general terms.

That said, the reason this ending affected me so strongly has nothing to do with what I know -- or don't know -- about the people surrounding Ishmael. It has everything to do with what I know about Ishmael.

Somewhere a lot higher up in this thread, I asked Nate for reassurance that at least there would be a happy ending because, and I quote: "Here we have a guy who's been making life better for those around him since he first set foot on a solar clipper (and maybe before then too, but we don't know that). It wouldn't be carmicly right for him to end up broke and unhappy, afraid for his life and limb and/or actually dead. Yeah, yeah, real life doesn't work like that. Trust me, I know. That's why I fell in love with your books in the first place!"

As that comment implies, I felt strongly then, and still feel strongly now, that Ishmael is a guy who deserves a break if ever there was one. That's because in listening to Nate's stories, I've come to love a man who most certainly does not love himself, but doesn't let that stop him. Ishmael is the kind of person I'd like to be if I ever grow up, and thanks to Nate's writing, I can now see the world through his eyes. Adopting the kind of perspective he demonstrates has helped me a lot on a personal level. It's made me feel that i can do anything, as long as I maintain the right frame of mind. After all, at its core the Share series tells the story of a man who built a life for himself after tragedy struck, initially doing nothing more than make good coffee. It feels attainable and miraculous at the same time.

That explains why I identify so strongly with this series, and why I felt so crushed when I found out how it ends. I think I'm not the only one. Many people feel as lost as Ishmael does, and some of them feel badly betrayed. The story that has probably been an inspiration to them for years still feels like something real and ordinary enough that it could actually happen; but it's not quite so miraculous now as it once might have seemed. That's reason enough to be shattered by it.

Nate may have been able to land an even bigger blow if the other pertinent characters had been a little more developed. But speaking only for myself, I'd have to say that I probably couldn't have taken a much bigger blow than this. The comment I quoted above has proven prophetic in more ways than one. Real life truly does not work like that, but I can't hold a grudge against Nate for telling a story that's true to life. I can only hope that in the next Ishmael Wang story, if there ever is one, we get to see him pick up the pieces once again. The real message, after all, is not that people get what they deserve. They get what they work for, despite all the things in their life that they can't control.