ARTICLE 37 FREE ZONE - WARNING ENTER HERE ONLY AFTER LISTENING TO EPI 30

[classicw]

I’ve been pondering my feelings and reaction to the end of Owner’s Share since the final episodes dropped.  First, I just wanted to say well done Nate, and I want to thank you for that and for the hard work and imagination you have shared with all of us throughout this whole journey.  And thank you for this forum for us to share our thoughts in conversation with you, the author.  We are so “close” to you through the connections of these boards, that I have great respect for you for interacting with us.  Can you imagine someone like Dan Brown putting his work out there and interacting with his readers in this way?  I can’t.  So, thank you Nate for having the courage to face the “slings and arrows” of your listeners/readers.  As someone who looks forward to owning all the hard covers of your books, I write the following analysis in the hopes that my thoughts along with everyone else’s here may in some small way help to improve and make the print edition, which is what some may only ever experience, the best it can possibly be.   

With that being said, even though OS did not go quite how I was anticipating, I thought the story was really great.  90 out of 100.  I enjoyed most everything about the story up to and including episode 28.  Though I really liked the idea of Ishmael and Greta “making a life for themselves” together in the deep dark, I can respect your story choices, especially if you have thoughts in mind of what Ishmael would actually choose for himself to do now that he is unencumbered.  I know that the story ran way long from what you perhaps intended from the start, and I can’t help but think that as you went along you wrote in such a way as to be as spare as possible, otherwise it might have ended up 300k words.   I understand that not every question or plot thread will be fully answered or tied, but I felt the story lost 10% in the final chapters because there is not enough closure.  I have three story points in mind that could benefit from more closure, and at least the way I imagine them, it would not take very many words (if that is the issue) to fill in those gaps.   Because this is a long response, I’ll break these thoughts up into three separate posts.

Part 1
The first closure problem is with Kurt and the information he supplies.  There are two points where Kurt’s conversation fails to bring full closer for Ish (and thereby us).  I understand and agree that the “whys” of it all are ultimately unanswerable and can bring no real satisfaction or ease Ish’s pain.  What can and should have been shared was more of the “what” happened.  Specifically with Umbra Security.   There is the suggestion that Umbra may have been up to no good when it was revealed that Chief Bailey worked for them, not DST.  But when Kurt says that it was Bailey’s connection to Umbra which lead them to Simpson does not satisfy the “what” question.   I guess that Kurt implies that CPJCT security has been looking at Umbra for a while, but that doesn’t mean there is a direct link between them and Simpson.  Nate, in your wonderful note, you explain that Simpson owned Umbra. This is the information that Ish (and we) needed, and had it been stated, I think we have given better closure here. 

The second issue with Kurt concerns Perc.  When he tells Ish not to worry and that he is safe, this is a lie, or at least not the truth.  Perc has already shown that he’s capable of murder, and someone whose job has been foiled and who has now become one of the most wanted men in the Western Annex,  is exactly the kind of person who would (in true villain fashion) seek revenge.   Therefore, none of the crew of the Iris is safe.  This is a trope I hope is not in future books, and if Perc as a story point is truly at an end, then I see no real advantage for leaving this point unresolved other than sticking to some arbitrary construct that says “there must be loose ends.”  His continued evasion also makes the CPJCT security force look incompetent.   I think it would have been much more fitting to have Kurt inform Ish that the security force caught Perc at Odin’s.  Adding something like “Perc eluded us in leaving the system and was able to dodge us for several more, but we finally caught up with him at Odin’s Outpost.  Imagine his surprise to be picked up by CPJCT security who were there waiting for him.  There are only a few spots wanted men might go to hide in peace in this quadrant, so we sent some agents there to wait for him to show up.”
So, not a lot of additional words would be needed to have a better closure for this story plot thread.  Next up, Ish’s welkie…

[classicw]

Part 2:  Ish’s welkie
With regards to Ish’s welkie, this is more of a quibble than an issue of closure, but I think there are touches that could add value to the welkie scene.  The final scene was beautiful and nearly perfect.  I loved who got what and why.  It was a scene full of grace and love.  Where I felt that it may have fallen short was in the set up.  In many ways, I think we were all expecting the bundle of welkies to show up at the end, and were wondering what kind of welkies might be given out.  What was jarring was how unnecessarily sudden Ish’s dolphin appears.  Ish just reaches into his pocket (where it has presumably been the whole time) and pulls it out for the first time it’s been seen all story long?  The seemingly intentional lack of any mention or sight of it until this point just did not ring true to his character nor the series as a whole.

I think there is a very easy and natural way to deal with this.  I totally expected to see Ish holding his dolphin after Greta died.   A simple few lines could both account for its absence and sudden presence without being unduly jarring by coming onstage in the very last scene.  In the chapter(s) preceding the final one, I expected to read something like: “I have carried the dolphin for more than 20 stanyers, but over the last couple I’ve carried it more out of habit than seeing it as a symbol or guide.   After Greta died, I found myself sitting on the bridge looking out into the deep dark, and my hand would periodically drift up to touch the pocket that held my dolphin.”  These few lines (or its like) would have been an acknowledgment of the welkie before the giving scene takes place.  After tragedy, it is perfectly reasonable and expected even for people to turn toward things that bring comfort.  Obviously Tai Chi was part of that for Ish, but I expected holding his welkie would have been just as important.  Also, by acknowledging the presence of it before the last scene, it would have made the giving of it, releasing it as he lets go of the past, (IMO) more emotionally affecting.  Again, a quick few words would take some of the suddenness out of its reappearance, and would be like the introductory bars to the song of the last scene.  Coming next…the “last shot.”

[surfsailor]

Well that certainly answered a few questions and does make the end of the book more clear.  Others have posted some interesting points and questions and I look forward to your comments.  If only to hear more about Ishmael! 

[classicw]

Part 3: “The Last Shot”

The last miss of possible closure is the very end itself, the last thing we “see/hear.”  A slight change could give this scene a sense of closure I think it yet needs.   If you’ll indulge a side illustration here as example to make my point, I’d like to refer to the very ending of Star Trek: Nemesis.  I know this movie is terrible on many different levels, but the last shot just added insult to injury.  Can you answer the question of what the last shot (in one form or another) was of each of the previous movies?  That’s right, the Enterprise moving off “into the future.”  Sometimes shooting off at warp speed, but always with moving forward.  What was the last shot of Nemesis? The ship being repaired in dry dock.  Roll credits.  What?!   Yes, the ship needed repairs and dry dock implies that it will fly again, but as this was the last TNG movie, being “stuck in dry dock” seems rather prophetic.  The thing that really irked me was it didn’t need to end this way.  Riker leaves the ship to take his new command. Given that context, how much more fitting and appropriate would it have been  to have the last shot be of Riker’s new ship leaving the Enterprise behind heading off towards his new future? 

How do I think this applies to OS?  Well, even with the beauty of the last scene, essentially the last thing we see is Ish still in emotional "dry dock.” I think this is part of why so many people are feeling unsatisfied by the ending.   Sure, we know he is working on getting healed, and we trust he will move forward towards something new, but we don’t see that first step.  And I think we could have.  Nate, God forbid that you should die before more stories are told, but should the unforeseen happen (as so clearly is demonstrated in the attack and Greta’s death), is it fitting to have the last scene of this book having Ish still in “dry dock?”  Yes, I think it is fairly obvious that given the conversations he’s had with Chief Stevens, Ish will take this opportunity to go and visit his Tai Chi instructor as a first step to finding his new path.  WE as readers know or suspect that, but we don’t see that Ish yet knows it, and that is unsatisfying.   I know that you don’t want to spell everything out for us readers, and you don’t need to do that here.  But I think it would only take two additional lines of dialogue to help this scene have closure.

After Ish tells Christine to “call me Ishmael”, I picture her asking, “Do you have any idea of what you are going to do now, Ishmael?”  He’d reply with a small smile, “No, I don’t know what I’m going to do, but I have an idea of where I might go.”  End.  Roll credits.  These two added lines would show that while Ish might not be fully out of the “dry dock”, he IS leaving it.  In fact, these don’t even need to be spoken.  It could be just as simple as having Ish think this expression of an idea as part of his internal monologue before speaking the final line to Christine.  I think the inclusion of something like this would help to add a deeper sense of closure to these share tales without adding lots of editing and rewrites. 

These are my three cents.  I do not intend these posts to come across with an attitude of “my ideas are better than yours and you should use them.”  If they do, Nate, I apologize for that.  Also, thank you Nate, for all the blood, sweat, and tears you’ve put into this series.  I have listened to these books many many times, and I love them anew each time, which is why I've posted such long comments.  I love this series, and want it to be the best it can and ought to be.  I eagerly look forward to anything and everything else you write in the future. 

Safe voyage, Sar.

[nlowell]

Now just because Pall, Hill, Pip and others were injured but not killed maybe I'm in the wrong for thinking that should happen one more time.

I didn't want to just kill people for the sake of killing people. It had to serve the story's purpose.

This has never been a safe place.

Just like most people think life is safe until suddenly it's not.

[Laith]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Great job Nate.

Many of my thoughts have already been spoken so I won't repeat them just now.

One thought I had right after listening to ep 30 was that I found it gave a nice symmetry to the Trader Tales to have Ish's exit from this phase of his life precipitated by the same root cause that started the journey.

The death of a loved one. When that thought hit me much of my anger/disappointment/etc over Gretta's death as a plot point went away as it helped me to see how the story flowed.

While I don't think Ish was healed at the end of OS I do believe he had turned the corner and was headed that way.

The future for Ish... based on the conversation with the new Chief I'll assume that there will be a trip to Port Newmar in his near future (assuming Sifu Newmar still lives)

I will say Simpson caught me completely blindsided but I could see the web once it came out. Nate, as you know from a PM I had already suspected that Jarvis was just misdirection. I just wasn't looking in quite the right direction.

I liked your choice of name for the Security company, my brother and I tossed around several interpretations of the reason that the company was called Umbra aka "Shadow" or "Darkest Shadow"

After the post by someone (sorry can't recall who) the other day about the ship Ephemeral at the beginning I'm thinking of re-listening to see what other little jems like that I may have overlooked in the books.

[nlowell]

Part 1
The first closure problem is with Kurt and the information he supplies.  There are two points where Kurt’s conversation fails to bring full closer for Ish (and thereby us).  I understand and agree that the “whys” of it all are ultimately unanswerable and can bring no real satisfaction or ease Ish’s pain.  What can and should have been shared was more of the “what” happened.  Specifically with Umbra Security.   There is the suggestion that Umbra may have been up to no good when it was revealed that Chief Bailey worked for them, not DST.  But when Kurt says that it was Bailey’s connection to Umbra which lead them to Simpson does not satisfy the “what” question.   I guess that Kurt implies that CPJCT security has been looking at Umbra for a while, but that doesn’t mean there is a direct link between them and Simpson.  Nate, in your wonderful note, you explain that Simpson owned Umbra. This is the information that Ish (and we) needed, and had it been stated, I think we have given better closure here. 

The second issue with Kurt concerns Perc.  When he tells Ish not to worry and that he is safe, this is a lie, or at least not the truth.  Perc has already shown that he’s capable of murder, and someone whose job has been foiled and who has now become one of the most wanted men in the Western Annex,  is exactly the kind of person who would (in true villain fashion) seek revenge.   Therefore, none of the crew of the Iris is safe.  This is a trope I hope is not in future books, and if Perc as a story point is truly at an end, then I see no real advantage for leaving this point unresolved other than sticking to some arbitrary construct that says “there must be loose ends.”  His continued evasion also makes the CPJCT security force look incompetent.   I think it would have been much more fitting to have Kurt inform Ish that the security force caught Perc at Odin’s.  Adding something like “Perc eluded us in leaving the system and was able to dodge us for several more, but we finally caught up with him at Odin’s Outpost.  Imagine his surprise to be picked up by CPJCT security who were there waiting for him.  There are only a few spots wanted men might go to hide in peace in this quadrant, so we sent some agents there to wait for him to show up.”
So, not a lot of additional words would be needed to have a better closure for this story plot thread.  Next up, Ish’s welkie…

yah. no.

Kurt said all he was allowed to say. I may need to seed more Umbra into the foreground, but really? it's irrelevant. It's not something Ishmael would know, have cause to know, or anything else. You keep wanting me to put stuff in here that violates 1stpov.

Perc gets away. There's a reason for that, if you'd give it a bit of thought, you'll know what that reason is.

[updated: I missed the 'this is a lie' comment ]

Actually, I think not. Patterson is a psychotic but he's also a professional. He kills for money. With Simpson not paying, unless somebody ELSE offers to pay, he has no motive for doing anything but getting his skinny little red haired butt into another quadrant.

[nlowell]

Part 2:  Ish’s welkie
With regards to Ish’s welkie, this is more of a quibble than an issue of closure, but I think there are touches that could add value to the welkie scene.  The final scene was beautiful and nearly perfect.  I loved who got what and why.  It was a scene full of grace and love.  Where I felt that it may have fallen short was in the set up.  In many ways, I think we were all expecting the bundle of welkies to show up at the end, and were wondering what kind of welkies might be given out.  What was jarring was how unnecessarily sudden Ish’s dolphin appears.  Ish just reaches into his pocket (where it has presumably been the whole time) and pulls it out for the first time it’s been seen all story long?  The seemingly intentional lack of any mention or sight of it until this point just did not ring true to his character nor the series as a whole.

Yup. It's been there all along. It's such a part of him now that he doesn't even think about it. He never notices when it's in his hand. It's just part of him. There's no reason for him to remark on it any more than he'd say where he put his hands on the keyboard. The appearances of the whelkie have been getting fewer and fewer as the books go along.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Was anybody surprised when he pulled it out of his pocket? I don't think so. You made his lack of playing with it into something that is really more projection than anything.

Can I add it in for the print version? Of course. Will I? Depends on the editor. Do I think it's needed? If I did, it woulda been there.

[classicw]

yah. no.

Kurt said all he was allowed to say. I may need to seed more Umbra into the foreground, but really? it's irrelevant. It's not something Ishmael would know, have cause to know, or anything else. You keep wanting me to put stuff in here that violates 1stpov.

Perc gets away. There's a reason for that, if you'd give it a bit of thought, you'll know what that reason is.

Kurt couldn't tell Ish that the connection between Bailey and Simpson was that he owned Umbra?  I guess if this was still an "open investigation" I could see not telling him this, but at the same time, I would think Kurt would say something like "I can't go into details as it is an ongoing investigation, but we were led to Simpson by tracking Bailey through Umbra."  (Or the like).  But at that point in the story Simpson was apparently on trial, so presumably what led the cops to Simpson would have been a matter for public record, and so I would think Kurt could tell Ish (and therefore us) this one connecting fact, because the nature of that connection was not evident to me in multiple listenings.  Thank you for responding. 

[nlowell]

Part 3: “The Last Shot”


How do I think this applies to OS?  Well, even with the beauty of the last scene, essentially the last thing we see is Ish still in emotional "dry dock.” I think this is part of why so many people are feeling unsatisfied by the ending.   Sure, we know he is working on getting healed, and we trust he will move forward towards something new, but we don’t see that first step.  And I think we could have.  Nate, God forbid that you should die before more stories are told, but should the unforeseen happen (as so clearly is demonstrated in the attack and Greta’s death), is it fitting to have the last scene of this book having Ish still in “dry dock?”  Yes, I think it is fairly obvious that given the conversations he’s had with Chief Stevens, Ish will take this opportunity to go and visit his Tai Chi instructor as a first step to finding his new path.  WE as readers know or suspect that, but we don’t see that Ish yet knows it, and that is unsatisfying.   I know that you don’t want to spell everything out for us readers, and you don’t need to do that here.  But I think it would only take two additional lines of dialogue to help this scene have closure.

After Ish tells Christine to “call me Ishmael”, I picture her asking, “Do you have any idea of what you are going to do now, Ishmael?”  He’d reply with a small smile, “No, I don’t know what I’m going to do, but I have an idea of where I might go.”  End.  Roll credits.  These two added lines would show that while Ish might not be fully out of the “dry dock”, he IS leaving it.  In fact, these don’t even need to be spoken.  It could be just as simple as having Ish think this expression of an idea as part of his internal monologue before speaking the final line to Christine.  I think the inclusion of something like this would help to add a deeper sense of closure to these share tales without adding lots of editing and rewrites. 

The problem is that "Call me Ishmael" is the last line of the book. There are no other lines after that that matter.

Now, could we have a "by the way arthur, as you know..." conversation BEFORE he says that. Sure.

I could have them talk over the deal they reached days before and how the board is now accepting her as the new heir and how Jarvis is considering her offer of CEO and all that.

We could.

But unless Ridan insists on it, I can't foresee putting them in.

He actually knows perfectly well where he's going, and anybody who paid attention to Episode 29 should, too. There's nothing coy about it. He's packing up his crap and moving out.

Where do YOU think he's going?

And where to you think he's going after that?

My 15 year old daughter just finished the book today. She knows. I didn't tell her so I'm not sure that I really need to spell it out here.

[nlowell]

Kurt couldn't tell Ish that the connection between Bailey and Simpson was that he owned Umbra?  I guess if this was still an "open investigation" I could see not telling him this, but at the same time, I would think Kurt would say something like "I can't go into details as it is an ongoing investigation, but we were led to Simpson by tracking Bailey through Umbra."  (Or the like).  But at that point in the story Simpson was apparently on trial, so presumably what led the cops to Simpson would have been a matter for public record, and so I would think Kurt could tell Ish (and therefore us) this one connecting fact, because the nature of that connection was not evident to me in multiple listenings.  Thank you for responding. 

Um? I'm not sure what you're asking.

You know Bailey and all the bodyguards are from Umbra. Kurt said "The break came with Baily. He led us to Umbra, Umbra led us to Simpson."

No, he didn't say Simpson owned Umbra. I fail to see the significance. It's almost exactly what you're suggesting I add in and - except for the "ownership" issue, it's already there.

[Laith]

Kurt couldn't tell Ish that the connection between Bailey and Simpson was that he owned Umbra?  I guess if this was still an "open investigation" I could see not telling him this, but at the same time, I would think Kurt would say something like "I can't go into details as it is an ongoing investigation, but we were led to Simpson by tracking Bailey through Umbra."  (Or the like).  But at that point in the story Simpson was apparently on trial, so presumably what led the cops to Simpson would have been a matter for public record, and so I would think Kurt could tell Ish (and therefore us) this one connecting fact, because the nature of that connection was not evident to me in multiple listenings.  Thank you for responding. 

Um? I'm not sure what you're asking.

You know Bailey and all the bodyguards are from Umbra. Kurt said "The break came with Baily. He led us to Umbra, Umbra led us to Simpson."

No, he didn't say Simpson owned Umbra. I fail to see the significance. It's almost exactly what you're suggesting I add in and - except for the "ownership" issue, it's already there.

I agree. I "read" the statement by Kurt as Simpson owning Umbra.
Really it doesn't matter. Even if the trail was more Bailey worked for Umbra and a number of Umbra employees including Bailey were determined to have done some moonlighting for Simpson... which given Simpson having motive was enough to dig more and voila... the end result was still the same.

Given what we now know about Bailey and the company he worked for (Umbra) I have to wonder if any other body guards from that company might be doing the leaked photos trick...? possibly even providing photos for a co-worker... with that many guards around the important people there are so many opportunities to get potentially useful photos... it it was a corporate thing...

[thewheelman84]

The problem is that "Call me Ishmael" is the last line of the book. There are no other lines after that that matter.

Now, could we have a "by the way arthur, as you know..." conversation BEFORE he says that. Sure.

I could have them talk over the deal they reached days before and how the board is now accepting her as the new heir and how Jarvis is considering her offer of CEO and all that.

We could.

But unless Ridan insists on it, I can't foresee putting them in.

He actually knows perfectly well where he's going, and anybody who paid attention to Episode 29 should, too. There's nothing coy about it. He's packing up his crap and moving out.

Where do YOU think he's going?

And where to you think he's going after that?

My 15 year old daughter just finished the book today. She knows. I didn't tell her so I'm not sure that I really need to spell it out here.

I think the last few minutes of the book were very well put together.  Gave you enough hints on what was going on without having to explain things.  After listening to the last few episodes again i think you ended the story quite nicely.  I'll admit that I didn't see Simpson coming at all.  I figured it would have been someone from within DST other than Jarvis, or perhaps a rival company looking to undercut Ish's business.  

All in all, great job Nathan.  I'm sure its nice to see something you've worked on for so long come to complete fruition.  

And from what I had gathered it didnt seem that Simpson had owned Umbra at all.  Just that he was a key fundraiser for the company.  The man behind the curtain if you will. 

[classicw]

Kurt couldn't tell Ish that the connection between Bailey and Simpson was that he owned Umbra?  I guess if this was still an "open investigation" I could see not telling him this, but at the same time, I would think Kurt would say something like "I can't go into details as it is an ongoing investigation, but we were led to Simpson by tracking Bailey through Umbra."  (Or the like).  But at that point in the story Simpson was apparently on trial, so presumably what led the cops to Simpson would have been a matter for public record, and so I would think Kurt could tell Ish (and therefore us) this one connecting fact, because the nature of that connection was not evident to me in multiple listenings.  Thank you for responding. 

Um? I'm not sure what you're asking.

You know Bailey and all the bodyguards are from Umbra. Kurt said "The break came with Baily. He led us to Umbra, Umbra led us to Simpson."

No, he didn't say Simpson owned Umbra. I fail to see the significance. It's almost exactly what you're suggesting I add in and - except for the "ownership" issue, it's already there.

I'm sorry, maybe I'm splitting hairs here or just a little dense about this, and I suppose the nature of the "why they are connected" ultimately doesn't matter, but for me, in how Kurt relays the information, at most it says "we found out that Simpson and Umbra were in cahoots together."  I guess that's damning enough, but to me, if Kurt had said Simpson owned Umbra, that would have been more of an "ah, I fully understand how Simpson was able to pull the strings" kind of reveal.  I know this seems a very minor and nit picky thing to focus on when the rest of the story really was quite wonderful, but I felt this conversation was more of a candle illuminating the dark rather than a flashlight, and at this point in the story, I'll admit I wanted a flashlight.  I may be the only one who didn't draw the conclusion that Simpson must have owned Umbra, but I am curious as to if other listener's had questions here too.

[classicw]

Christine Maloney claimed her inheritance and took over as majority stock holder in DST. She gave Ishmael twenty million per for his shares of Icarus and the company was folded into DST but maintained the imprint as the luxury travel line. In a year she'll have the Higbee Yard revive the 9500 Starlighter hull with some upgrades as an exclusive design for Icarus.

She will hire Ames Jarvis to be CEO and return to being chef on the Iris for three more stanyers.

Ishmael can't stay aboard the Iris. He sells it with the company.

The Chernyakova has still not been settled.

100 million for the Iris sounded about right, though I was thinking something more like 125-150.  Then I reconsidered my thinking.  The ship was undervalued at the start, when I think Ish says it probably should go for 80 mil.  So, buying out Icarus (in my mind) would have been 80 or so for the ship itself (especially at this point with all the system, hardware, and amenity upgrades he's done), plus buying out his 5 shares.  As I think about it, 20 mil a share sounds about right too, as it is not only buying control of the company itself, it is purchasing the excellent 5 star reputation it has already earned (and the future profits derived from that reputation).  So, given what Nate's described, and my own finger counting analysis, I kind of feel that Ish get the short end of the stick again with 100 million instead of 180.  He REALLY needs to find a new financial advisor.