ARTICLE 37 FREE ZONE - WARNING ENTER HERE ONLY AFTER LISTENING TO EPI 30

[mimccart]

100 million for the Iris sounded about right, though I was thinking something more like 125-150.  Then I reconsidered my thinking.  The ship was undervalued at the start, when I think Ish says it probably should go for 80 mil.  So, buying out Icarus (in my mind) would have been 80 or so for the ship itself (especially at this point with all the system, hardware, and amenity upgrades he's done), plus buying out his 5 shares.  As I think about it, 20 mil a share sounds about right too, as it is not only buying control of the company itself, it is purchasing the excellent 5 star reputation it has already earned (and the future profits derived from that reputation).  So, given what Nate's described, and my own finger counting analysis, I kind of feel that Ish get the short end of the stick again with 100 million instead of 180.  He REALLY needs to find a new financial advisor. 

As I figure it, he still has the Chernyakova auction proceeds coming his way, too.  100 mil debt free for 1 year's work?  Even if you think he got shorted, it's not a bad profit.  Ish is now not just rich, he's wealthy.  He could probably afford to bankroll his father Frank in franchising Over Easy to every orbital in the Western Annex if he wanted to.

So maybe Ish got the short end, but he'd never have had any of it if DST hadn't given him a sweetheart deal on the Iris.

[nlowell]

100 million for the Iris sounded about right, though I was thinking something more like 125-150.  Then I reconsidered my thinking.  The ship was undervalued at the start, when I think Ish says it probably should go for 80 mil.  So, buying out Icarus (in my mind) would have been 80 or so for the ship itself (especially at this point with all the system, hardware, and amenity upgrades he's done), plus buying out his 5 shares.  As I think about it, 20 mil a share sounds about right too, as it is not only buying control of the company itself, it is purchasing the excellent 5 star reputation it has already earned (and the future profits derived from that reputation).  So, given what Nate's described, and my own finger counting analysis, I kind of feel that Ish get the short end of the stick again with 100 million instead of 180.  He REALLY needs to find a new financial advisor. 

I'm not following this at all, but I don't really need to.

Icarus owned the Iris. It was really the only tangible asset. When DST buys out the five shares of stock from Ishmael, they got the ship and the name and the goodwill. They also had to buy out the other four shares. Ishmael walked into the deal with whatever he had in his pocket. He walked out with 100mil. Intangibles aside, that's a pretty good year's work. It's also twice the book value of the stock.

But go for it.

(I can't believe we're arguing over paper profits in a fictional company for a guy whom I made up and who has so much bigger fish to fry than the incremental profit over more money than he knows what to do with already, but hey...)

[surfsailor]

Just says that much more about the effect of the story on the audience.  We all can't help but want the best for Ishmael.  You have the benefit of knowing all the details and back story as well as where you want to take him in the future.  Waiting is hard for we lowly readers!  Especially after such a ride.   

[surfsailor]

It is a wonder to me how you can do this forum bit without developing a certain amount of disdain for some of your audience.  You are a better man than I in that regard.

[Richard]

  Folks are talking about all the things they got out of 29 & 30, and I have to admit I didn't see most of them. I've listened to 29 twice, and 30 four times, so I'm glad this thread's here.

Of course, now I'm left wondering how I missed these things...

[Polemicturtle]

Was the character name Percival Herring a nod to Percival Lowell?

[Hade]

This has never been a safe place.

Just like most people think life is safe until suddenly it's not.

This. This is where the crux of the issue lies, with regards to how shocked we were by the events in episode 28. Ish's universe has never been a safe place, and yet somehow he thought that it was -- which means we thought that it was, because we were looking at it through his eyes.

Once again, as I have said before, it proves the potency of first person narrative when used well -- and used very well it was, in this case.

I think this is also a part of why your stories always seemed so full of hope to me. To someone who knows that the world isn't as safe a place as we might like to believe, it's refreshing to see through the eyes of someone who hasn't been 'tainted', so to speak. The fact that he refuses to *be* tainted, in spite of all the crap that keeps happening around him, is all the more remarkable, if a little bit naive.   

[Hade]

The problem is that "Call me Ishmael" is the last line of the book. There are no other lines after that that matter.

Yes! So true!

What better way was there to end this story? I personally think that last line was the best line in the whole series, showing, instead of *telling* us, that the character had come full circle.

And where to you think he's going after that?

My 15 year old daughter just finished the book today. She knows. I didn't tell her so I'm not sure that I really need to spell it out here.

The best theory I can come up with is that he might want to get to know his father after he gets his emotional balance back, but I don't remember any obvious pointers in that direction. Your daughter is a smarter person than I am.

[Magnus]

(I can't believe we're arguing over paper profits in a fictional company for a guy whom I made up and who has so much bigger fish to fry than the incremental profit over more money than he knows what to do with already, but hey...)
[/quote]


Ummm I would think that this is a good indication that you have done a good job at involving your audience. Give yourself a pat on the back for a job well done and start wondering how do I top this.

I am sure I will catch so many more things after reading all the posts here and it will be good fun while on my flight this afternoon.

[nlowell]

Was the character name Percival Herring a nod to Percival Lowell?

No. I just always wanted a character named Percy.

[nlowell]

It is a wonder to me how you can do this forum bit without developing a certain amount of disdain for some of your audience.  You are a better man than I in that regard.

Actually I think the comments -- while sometimes frustrating -- offer me an insight into the effectiveness, or lack thereof, of my writing. I'm shocked, for example, at how readily everybody jumped on Jarvis as the villain even in the face of what I thought was obvious problems with that idea. Also the notion that Ishmael's drop off in effectiveness was - somehow - something I had done by accident, that it was sloppy writing or something -- I obviously didn't make that plain enough and I'm going to take that under advisement.

I try to reward careful listeners. The stories -- as your glimpse into my world should show -- are not simple surface stories but have roots that run "off stage" and around in places that are significant only by implication. That's never been truer than in this book. One of the risks of taking this kind of chance is that you don't do it well enough. I'll stand by the story. Of the almost 6000 people who've listened to the ending since Monday, only a small handful have commented one way or another and the vast majority of the comments have been positive.

You guys here on the forum are the hardcore group ... I love you guys.

I don't often agree with you, but I salute your willingness to try to second guess me.

[nlowell]

The problem is that "Call me Ishmael" is the last line of the book. There are no other lines after that that matter.

Yes! So true!

What better way was there to end this story? I personally think that last line was the best line in the whole series, showing, instead of *telling* us, that the character had come full circle.

And where to you think he's going after that?

My 15 year old daughter just finished the book today. She knows. I didn't tell her so I'm not sure that I really need to spell it out here.

The best theory I can come up with is that he might want to get to know his father after he gets his emotional balance back, but I don't remember any obvious pointers in that direction. Your daughter is a smarter person than I am.

Episode 29 and 30 is all about where he's going.

Remember that he has to "go home." Also remember that we have a whole cast of characters that you all want to see again, but that cannot appear except tangentially in Diurnia. There's a big fracking unresolved plot point to give him a road to follow. There are HUGE issues that aren't even acknowledged in this series.

Ishmael has a lot of potential...So far we haven't really done more than touch the surface.

[JaneAtPlay]

Actually I think the comments -- while sometimes frustrating -- offer me an insight into the effectiveness, or lack thereof, of my writing.

I for one, was having so much fun following the wild speculation out here, I got caught up in it.  I collected a lot of the puzzle pieces, but failed to make the whole picture. That's not a judgement on the story (which I think was masterfully told), but my own need for...gossip?  Darn it Nate, pack your stories with more 2-dimensional characters and we'd stop missing the point! (please don't).
 

I kind of feel that Ish get the short end of the stick again with 100 million instead of 180.

I thought Ishmael's take is huge, given that he had nothing more in his pockets than his personal savings and good looks when he was pushed into this.  I was a little worried his full circle would end up being 'broke, stranded and needing to get out of Dodge'.

This has never been a safe place.

Just like most people think life is safe until suddenly it's not.

...it's refreshing to see through the eyes of someone who hasn't been 'tainted', so to speak. The fact that he refuses to *be* tainted, in spite of all the crap that keeps happening around him, is all the more remarkable, if a little bit naive.

For me, it was more naivete, than intestinal fortitude.  I started to feel more like 'Ish, get your head out of the sand already'. As OS progressed, I was smacked by how much Ish has isolated himself in the "Dock/Deep Dark/Dock" merry-go-round. 

He's got his whelkie, his tai chi, some creds in his pocket and he's headed back to Port Newmar.  Time to "Trust Ishmael" for a change?
 

[surfsailor]

I need to go back and listen to again from Full Share forward.  The third and forth reads always yield the details I missed at first blush.  Can't wait for the print versions as I can absorb it much more readily in that medium. 

I was never all that happy with Jarvis as the puppeteer, the clues that he was not I picked up on but didn't put them all together.  That said, Simpson surprised me completely.  He always seemed to good to be true and the other shoe had to drop but he was a likable rascal right up until Ishmael gets the message about the payout taking 120 days.  It was noted that that was typical and Simpson would have known it I think.  Ishmael failed himself when he didn't do any research about the process and just threw the dice as it were.

Perc remaining in the wind seems relatively unimportant to me.  He was a vehicle or means of cutting Ishmael free and allowing him to go forward.  Seems to me that catching him would serve no purpose other than focus attention on the idea that someone killed Greta as apposed to it being some random act in an otherwise cold universe.  Which I think was the point. 

The whole series for me is like what would have happened if Billy Budd had lived. 

I hope you will correct any misconceptions I have.

[classicw]

100 million for the Iris sounded about right, though I was thinking something more like 125-150.  Then I reconsidered my thinking.  The ship was undervalued at the start, when I think Ish says it probably should go for 80 mil.  So, buying out Icarus (in my mind) would have been 80 or so for the ship itself (especially at this point with all the system, hardware, and amenity upgrades he's done), plus buying out his 5 shares.  As I think about it, 20 mil a share sounds about right too, as it is not only buying control of the company itself, it is purchasing the excellent 5 star reputation it has already earned (and the future profits derived from that reputation).  So, given what Nate's described, and my own finger counting analysis, I kind of feel that Ish get the short end of the stick again with 100 million instead of 180.  He REALLY needs to find a new financial advisor.  

I'm not following this at all, but I don't really need to.

Icarus owned the Iris. It was really the only tangible asset. When DST buys out the five shares of stock from Ishmael, they got the ship and the name and the goodwill. They also had to buy out the other four shares. Ishmael walked into the deal with whatever he had in his pocket. He walked out with 100mil. Intangibles aside, that's a pretty good year's work. It's also twice the book value of the stock.

But go for it.

(I can't believe we're arguing over paper profits in a fictional company for a guy whom I made up and who has so much bigger fish to fry than the incremental profit over more money than he knows what to do with already, but hey...)

It's not that I don't think 100 mil is a lot of money, or that it isn't an incredible payout for one year's worth of work.  It's just that I think he is worth more.  I'm not trying to nit pick here, I just enjoy your world so much that I try to think through the intangibles and implications of things, especially now that this chapter has concluded.  Please correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understood it, the Iris was undervalued at its sale to Ishmael at 40 mil (half its real value).  Thus, at the time of the sale, it was worth 80, if not more with the investments and improvements Ish made to the ship.  If Ish were to just sell the ship, he would get 80 mil and then pay off his investors himself, and then have full control of all the stocks for Icarus, and all the good will and reputation that goes with it.  If he wanted to, Ish could lease a new ship and continue on as sole shareholder of Icarus.  I can see why he would not do that, but that doesn't mean he couldn't.  

Thus in DST buying Iris and Icarus, in my mind, there are two "commodities" being purchased: the ship, and Icarus's name, good will, and reputation.  I can see a deal being made that took into account that DST would pay off the investors themselves.  In my thinking that would be taken out of the value of the ship itself, so Ish would get 30 or so in profit off the portion of the ship sale, while DST would then allocate the remaining 50 to pay off the investors, but that would then leave buying out the 5 shares of Icarus that Ish owns. I believe twice their face value is actually the right price for them because I think the brand name (and the future profits derived there from) is really worth more than the ship itself.  Thus, unless I am missing something, by these figures I think Ish should have walked away with a minimum of 130 mil. for the market value of Icarus and Iris.  

I suggested a payoff of 150-180 because, given all that Ish suffered on account of DST, because they counted the sale of the Chernykova before it hatched and assumed Ish would no longer want to work for them, I think they owed him more than just "market value" but to do right by him, and give a "fair value" that encompasses both the value of Icarus and Iris, as well as a generous padding on account of their own culpability for the "pain and suffering" he endured.

I'm glad that Ishmael is now free and rich beyond his expectations or imaginings.  It's just that from the strictly business side of things, I think he was worth more, and I think that Christine's respect and compassion for Ishmael would have moved her to convince the board to be generous on Ish's behalf to make sure he gets what he is truly worth and due.  These are just my two cents.  Thanks for letting me play in your sandbox.