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Author Topic: Can this really be the end? Clearly not. -- In Ashes Born.  (Read 2093 times)
Hade
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« on: October 09, 2015, 09:03:47 AM »

As far as I can tell, the last post on this forum was something on the order of two years ago. Maybe that's a sign that I need to get with the program and leave this place alone in favor of Facebook, where others have already started discussing the newest addition to the Solar Clipper tales. But I don't know. There's a certain kind of nostalgia to this place.

So, anyone interested in picking this new book apart in great detail, the way we used to when we got them in bits and pieces through audiobooks.com?
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annoyance
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« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2015, 11:26:03 AM »

I don't know about picking apart but I have some questions and observations.  Seems like the entire quadrant is in turmoil of some kind, what's that about?  Pip seems more dubious than ever.  If he does work for the TIC he's a double agent.  Both Curt and Agent Waters knew about Ish's father (not to mention the newsies plastering it all over the quadrant) and it wasn't in Pip's files on Ish?  Another thing that seems ludicrous is that the three most senior share holders would be sailing on the same ship together.  I think the insurance company would frown on such things.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2015, 11:30:17 AM by annoyance » Logged
Hade
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« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2015, 01:26:08 PM »

Pip seems more dubious than ever.  If he does work for the TIC he's a double agent.

How do you figure that? Pip being a double agent would mean he also works for the guys on the dark side. I've never seen any indication of that. I think he's just a cargo genius who, at some point in the twenty years we didn't see, went looking for (and/or was talked into) an extra challenge. Do you have reason to believe that he himself is running afoul of the CPJCT?

Both Curt and Agent Waters knew about Ish's father (not to mention the newsies plastering it all over the quadrant) and it wasn't in Pip's files on Ish?

Yesterday I might have agreed with you on that one, but today Nate said something interesting on Facebook. Nobody keeps in touch. Long-distance messaging is, in many cases, more expensive than actually physically traveling those long distances (assuming the trip itself turns a profit). Might be that it wasn't in Pip's files on Ish just because that particular bit of information never made it back to Dunsany Roads. It being in the newsies on a few planets that are in regular contact with each other through triangle trade doesn't necessarily mean it's actually "all over the quadrant".     
Another thing that seems ludicrous is that the three most senior share holders would be sailing on the same ship together.  I think the insurance company would frown on such things.

I don't know why the insurance company would care. They are the major shareholders of a corporate entity, yes. If they die (even if they die within three seconds of each other), the board needs to find replacements for them, but their money doesn't just evaporate. The shares will be sold to other buyers, or (more likely) nobody will want to buy in without those three around, and the company will fold. But that has nothing to do with insurance.

I can see how the insurer might not like it if all three of them have major life insurance policies that would trigger a payout in the event of accidental death. But I don't see how an insurance company can force anyone to change jobs (or job locations) just based on the fact that they are in a dangerous business. Probably, they just pay higher premiums.   

Is it *wise* for them to put three Phoenix Freights' major shareholders all on the same ship? Probably not. But that's like saying tech startups shouldn't have all their employees working in the same building, because what happens if that building burns down, collapses in an Earth quake, or is the target of the next 9/11? Maybe they should spread their employees far and wide and have contingency plans for every eventuality. In reality, no startup actually works that way. 
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annoyance
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« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2015, 02:50:35 PM »

"How do you figure that? Pip being a double agent would mean he also works for the guys on the dark side. I've never seen any indication of that. I think he's just a cargo genius who, at some point in the twenty years we didn't see, went looking for (and/or was talked into) an extra challenge. Do you have reason to believe that he himself is running afoul of the CPJCT?"

Pip refused to incorporate in Newfar Nuke to avoid further regulations by the CPJCT.  He illegally transported a pallet of "Clipper Ship" off of Port Newmar.  He and Ish illegally entered the Chernykova before the auction and stole confidential data.  During some of the conversations that Pip and Ish have he speaks somewhat positively about the dark side and he's willing to take a 310 million credit investment in there.  Of course, this is all speculation but I think it's at least logical.
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Hade
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« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2015, 03:15:51 PM »

Pip refused to incorporate in Newfar Nuke to avoid further regulations by the CPJCT.

Pip is not trying to evade *all* regulations, I think. Just audits. He doesn't want Phoenix Freight to pay a cent more in taxes than it absolutely has to. To my mind, that's just what corporations do. Isn't it? 

He illegally transported a pallet of "Clipper Ship" off of Port Newmar.

He did transport a pallet of Clipper Ship off of Port Newmar. I don't think there was anything illegal about that. He just didn't want to tell Ish. After all, Ish had thoughtfully provided him with a grave trunk full of Clipper Ship, which was ... a thoughtful gesture that sank into insignificance compared to the staggering quantity of beer Pip had already bought, and brought with them.   

He and Ish illegally entered the Chernykova before the auction and stole confidential data.

Yes they did, but that turned out to have been part of Pip's TIC mission. You can hardly decide to call him a double agent on the basis of something he may have been under direct orders *from* the TIC to do. And even if he wasn't under orders, it certainly didn't conflict with what they want from him. Why else would there have been a happy reunion between Pip and Waters right after they'd been caught 'red-handed' on the Chernyakova by Waters & company?

and he's willing to take a 310 million credit investment in there.

... again, as part of his TIC mission.
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annoyance
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« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2015, 03:16:37 PM »

"Yesterday I might have agreed with you on that one, but today Nate said something interesting on Facebook. Nobody keeps in touch. Long-distance messaging is, in many cases, more expensive than actually physically traveling those long distances (assuming the trip itself turns a profit). Might be that it wasn't in Pip's files on Ish just because that particular bit of information never made it back to Dunsany Roads. It being in the newsies on a few planets that are in regular contact with each other through triangle trade doesn't necessarily mean it's actually "all over the quadrant". "  

This one I will concede.  Dunsany Roads is too distant to get local news pertaining to Diurnia.

"
I don't know why the insurance company would care. They are the major shareholders of a corporate entity, yes. If they die (even if they die within three seconds of each other), the board needs to find replacements for them, but their money doesn't just evaporate. The shares will be sold to other buyers, or (more likely) nobody will want to buy in without those three around, and the company will fold. But that has nothing to do with insurance.

I can see how the insurer might not like it if all three of them have major life insurance policies that would trigger a payout in the event of accidental death. But I don't see how an insurance company can force anyone to change jobs (or job locations) just based on the fact that they are in a dangerous business. Probably, they just pay higher premiums.  

Is it *wise* for them to put three Phoenix Freights' major shareholders all on the same ship? Probably not. But that's like saying tech startups shouldn't have all their employees working in the same building, because what happens if that building burns down, collapses in an Earth quake, or is the target of the next 9/11? Maybe they should spread their employees far and wide and have contingency plans for every eventuality. In reality, no startup actually works that way.  "

Usually, companies take out life insurance and other types of policies on their principals.  They often have clauses that preclude travelling together.  It causes problems when two board members have to be at the same meeting, half-way across the country.  It's more realistic to imagine a catastrophic failure on a ship in space, than an attack on the corporate offices.  
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Hade
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« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2015, 08:20:29 PM »

It's more realistic to imagine a catastrophic failure on a ship in space, than an attack on the corporate offices.  

Yep. Which is why, if they did indeed take out life insurance (maybe even disability insurance, although with what we've seen of Solar Clipper-era medicine, that might be overkill), they're probably paying through their noses in premiums. But it's hard for me to imagine that in the spacer world, no life insurance policies exist that are tailored to exactly this kind of situation: two guys on a (comparatively) shoe-string budget, trying to get a new shipping company off the ground.

Pip has spent virtually his entire life shipboard, *and* he has access to significant money from the family. Ish just happens to be the guy with both a) most of the rest of the money in hand, and b) a Master's license. And then there is this engineer who literally wrote the book on engineering. Any insurer who tries to break that dynamic trio up, just so they won't have to pay out on multiple policies at once, is simply leaving money on the table, IMHO.

(1) Let them do what they will do anyway, and insure their lives if that's what they want from you.
(2) Make them pay handsomely for the privilege.
(3) Profit.

That sounds about right to me, for a savvy insurance company.

Besides, if I were Ish, I might not even bother with life insurance. He has no dependents. If he dies, his investment (which is to say, a big chunk of ship) will stay with the company. Who would be the beneficiary of this life insurance policy?  
« Last Edit: October 10, 2015, 08:36:07 PM by Hade » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2015, 02:35:25 AM »

A more interesting question (to me, at least): Nate suggested that there may be a cultural reason for Ish and the gang not having kept in touch over the years (Pip's "file" on Ish notwithstanding). He said that fast, reliable and relatively cheap long-distance communications are something we rely on today that was taken away by the CPJCT. Why?

I immediately thought of the heavily managed media circus in Suzan Collins' (Hunger Games) books. I wonder how many people would rebel if they knew in any amount of detail (or with any degree of certainty) what life is like on non-company planets.   
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